Here’s the transcript of the panel for those who can’t watch it, or have hearing issues!
Another big thank you to my wonderful panelists – Mxiety from mxiety.com, Becky Frost from SpecialEffect, Alex Kanaris-Sotiriou from Polygon Treehouse and Johnny Chiodini from Dicebreaker. Remember to check out all their content and follow them on Twitter – @johnneh, @Kanaratron, @mxiety, @beckyfr0st! Plus follow me – @OurMindGames/@CaitlinRC 😀
INTRO:
CAITLIN
Hello everyone, welcome back to EGX
Digital! If this is the first panel
you're watching, make sure you go find
the others, also thank you for
choosing this one.
CAITLIN (cont'd)
I'm - You won't know me, I'm Caitlin,
I run a very small site called
MindGames where I talk about video
games and mental health, and today I
am doing, just that, with four very
lovely people who will introduce
themselves now:
BECKY F
Hi! My name is Becky, I am the
community events co-coordinator at
SpecialEffect, which is a UK-Based
charity who help people with severe
physical-
Dog bark in the background.
BECKY F (cont'd)
Immediate dog interruption there!
Severe physical disabilities to access
video games.
ALEX
Hi, I'm Alex, I'm one of the co-
founders at Polygon Treehouse, we just
released Róki which is a modern
adventure game, which as well as being
a fantastical adventure, dealing with
Scandinavian Folklore, it also tackled
the themes of loss and grief and
reconciliation.
MXIETY
Hi! I'm Mxiety, I'm a mental health
talk show host on Twitch and I'm also
an ambassador for SafeInOurWorld which
is a charity dedicated to bringing
mental health awareness to the gaming
world.
JOHNNY
And I am Johnny, I'm Head Of Video for
a site called Dicebreaker, which is
all about tabletop games. Before then
I used to work in video games as part
of the video team at Eurogamer where I
did a series involving video games and
mental health and how they intersect.
And I once did a Ted-Ex talk! So
that's me, blowing my own trumpet.
CAITLIN
No, everyone here is very good at what
they do, I've- thankfully everyone
said yes, we've got a range of people
who help out with charities, people
who have spoken about mental health
themselves, people who have worked on
games.
CAITLIN (cont'd)
Rough overview of how this is going to
work, it's going to be about three
sections. So, we're going to talk
about representation of mental health
in gaming, both the good and the bad,
we'll talk about using gaming as a
coping mechanism which is a big part
for me, and we're going to talk about
the communities that get built around
games both as genres, as worldwide
communities such as those for
Dicebreaker and Eurogamer and then
we'll round it off!
REPRESENTATION:
CAITLIN
We'll hop right into representation.
Personally, I'm very open about my
mental health. I suffer from
depression, anxiety and post-traumatic
stress. I'm very open about these
things and obviously, not everyone is
and seeing people who suffer from the
same conditions as myself in video
games can be a very positive or
negative experience. So, for example,
one of my favorite games is What
Remains Of Edith Finch and it's
representation of depression with
Edith's brother. It's a brilliant
sequence, if you haven;t played the
game I definitely recommend it, but it
is a very well told story of someone
who is struggling and yeah, if we open
the floor to where people have seen
representation they like, maybe one's
they don't like. Go for it!
MXIETY
There is - I'll just start, I'll run
on, cause I do love this stuff and I
discuss it on my channel. There is
some awesome representation of how to
help somebody through a mental health
crisis in Stardew Valley. A lot of
people in general find that game
relaxing and soothing, it puts you to
ease, its very, you know, redundant
tasks that as you approach them they
become easier and easier to do, so
it's very easy to lose yourself and
lose the time that you've spent in
this game. As you get to know the
characters, you have different events
that happen and one of the events that
happens is you encounter, if you get
very close to Shane, you encounter
that he has a suicidal episode where
he wishes to end his life and you get
to have a few choices and it generally
steers you in the proper direction of
what to say that would help him and
the ultimate goal is, he wakes up, it
flashes over to the medical center and
he wakes up and thanks you for
bringing him in and tells you that he
will be getting help from
professionals and that you did a
really good job not trying to take it
on yourself but by bringing him where
he would get the help he needs. And I
think that overall that's a very well
put together message and the whole
scene is about like ten minutes, but
it has a really big impact and I
remember watching it and pointing at
it going "THIS IS SO GOOD, SO GOOD!"
ALEX
One of the games that I played and I
found really powerful was Celeste. I
came to it quite late and I think I
had an idea, I knew it was meant to be
this super hard platforming game. It
wasn't quite, I wasn't expecting it to
impact me as emotionally as it did. I
think just the-guessing in what we try
and do with our game and telling a
story through the game play and in
Celeste you are gradually climbing
this mountain and overcoming this
great big barrier. I found that was
really powerful even though second by
second and minute by minute you're
doing all this platforming and story,
it was really well told. I think one
of the really powerful things about
games and tackling mental health is
that it doesn't have to be in your
face the whole time, in Celeste it
gives you a breathing space. That's
definitely something we tried to do
with Róki,its almost like you have,
you can deal with some of these topics
and you can allow breathing space for
the player to reflect on these things,
they need time to take it all in. I
think that generally it's really
interesting that games tackle some of
these issues on a big variety of
levels and I think its really nice,
its quite a powerful thing to allow
people - a) if they have mental health
issues to see people struggling or
dealing with some of those issues and
also for people who want an insight, a
way of stepping into someone else's
shoes a little bit and maybe
encouraging a bit of empathy and less
fear of mental health and what it is.
JOHNNY
Go for it Becky (Eye Gaze Girl).
BECKY F
I wish I'd gone first cause I was
totally going to talk about Celeste!
But just going back to what Caitlin
said and What Remains Of Edith Finch,
was something I watched my husband
play through recently, we kinda play
through together, and the variety of
different issues, I'm aware of not
wanting to give any spoilers, like the
different characters that you visit
throughout the game, represented so
many different issues from like loss
and grieving to PTSD to paranoia.
There were so many mental health
issues explored, going through a
trauma, that kind of thing. It's one
of those amazing games that seems,
from my perspective that seems to
present each topic quite sensitively
as far as I could see from my
perspective.
JOHNNY
I think for me, it feels somewhat
obvious but I think Life Is Strange
was a really big one for me in terms
of its - particularly the first season
and the prequel Before The Storm for
me, were such a powerful exercise in
empathy. Every character if you dig
deep enough has something going on.
Its not necessarily a diagnosable
mental health condition or anything
like that, it is so, its central
themes are so wrapped up in the idea
that being a teenager is hard, and
that there is a lot to deal with
because you are literally learning how
to be a person whilst there's all this
other stuff going on. Obviously it
does tackle more direct themes for
example in the first season there is a
very poignant scene involving an
attempted suicide, the repercussions
of that echo through the rest of the
game. There's also nice little
incidental moments that you can miss
as well, for example you can find some
antidepressants in your best friends
bathroom, and it never comes up in
conversation between the two of them
but the protagonist takes a moment to
be like "Oh wow, they have been going
through some stuff whilst I've not
been talking to them." I think Life Is
Strange has been really important in
terms fob building a community that is
comfortable talking about mental
illness and supporting one another and
accessing resources in a way that is
really impressive and quite moving I
think.
CAITLIN
I agree with that, I think a lot of
that came during Before The Storm. As
much as Kate was the main poignant
focus when it came to tackling mental
health issues in the first season but
then you dig, in Before The Storm, you
dig into Chloe coping with her
father's death and the changes, and
then Rachel dealing with well... all
of that:
JOHNNY
Everything.
CAITLIN
Everything! And I found like a lot of
people took moments from that and
essentially managed to attach
reosurces and things to it. So
whenever people went back and
revisited those moments they'd find
lots of posts with resources and
references - it was very nice.
JOHNNY
Yeah.
MXIETY
Its always between that and Stardew
Valley when it comes to representation
and then another one that I think
people don't expect in- And I know I
already went and I'm sorry!
Laughter from all.
CAITLIN
No it's fine!
MXIETY
Another one that I think people don't
expect is Kingdom Hearts or I think
they don't read into it as much. But
one of the characters LITERALLY treads
through darkness, her own darkness for
TEN years and-
CAITLIN
Oh Aqua!
MXIETY
Yeah! And when she's constantly told
that she's not worthy, her friends
dont love her, theyre not gonna come
save her, shes not good enough, she
will never help anybody, like all this
stuff that literally are things
depression tells you, and so its not
as like - Life Is Strange is very much
"here are mental health themes" right
and you're prepared for it. But I feel
that Kingdom Hearts is one of those
where you learn empathy through the
means of "oh I'm just playing a game,
I've got to save this person out of
darkness!" Darkness is a common
metaphor for how we feel inside and
"bad things". You can totally gloss
over it or you can stop for a moment
and be like "woah, she's been
depressed for 10 years."
CAITLIN
When you go from Donald Duck's voice
to a heavy montage about depression,
its a little bit jarring.
MXIETY
But they get you! They get you.
BECKY F
That's one of the great things about
games and that form of storytelling,
that you are in many cases playing
through the protgaonist or playing
through the person who is going
through it or dealing with it or
helping someone deal withh it in some
way. And if you're a good writer you
can write something that sweeps you
off your feet and hits you in that way
like you've just described.
ALEX
Probably one of the really powerful
things about video games in tackling
mental health issues is that, as a
player, you're an active part of the
story. And so, you're playing through
a scenario in a different way to
watching a film or reading a book, you
have to make choices about the
scenarios you've been placed in and it
puts you in someone else's shoes and
makes you consider things from
different people's perspectives and
maybe even if its tackling issues that
someone maybe has dealt with, by
taking you out of your skin and
putting you in someone else's -
slightly removed from yourself, you
may allow people to work through
things they're dealing with in the
real world.
CAITLIN
It's interesting to see how games
tackle it as some games do
brilliantly, such as the ones we've
discussed, such as big titles like
Senuas Sacrifice which is very well
researched into psychosis. Then
obviously you have ones that try but
often fall flat. For me, I appreciate
them trying.
ALEX
From a developer point of view, when
making a game you get quite close to
it. Its hard to see what it is
sometimes. I think we tried really
hard with the story of Roki, in it the
hero Tove, she's- you don't really get
lots of exposition at the start, we
just drop you into the game and don't
really tell you whats going on and
allow the player to explore the
scenarios and what's happening but it
does deal with themes of loss. When
you're making a game, you're trying to
make sure that you're making a game
that takes the matter seriously but
also engages people and isn't too
didactic. At the end of three years
you're a bit too close so you don't
really know how the story or the
themes are going to land. From that
side it's really interesting and we
were really relieved to the response
that those things that we weren't that
sure that people would even pick up on
them, in fact we've been quite shocked
by some of the-pleasantly shocked-
messages we received from people
saying "that really reminded me of
this" and "thank you for doing this",
we had some really amazing messages
and sometimes things we hadn't even
considered. That's the other thing.
People will project onto your game, or
onto a game that they're playing, will
start to fill in some blanks with
their own experiences. You'll find as
a developer that things may resonate
with people in ways that you don't
expect and again, that's a really
powerful thing about games.
JOHNNY
I think it's a relief that at least
off the top of my head, while there
are games out there that do get mental
health representation wrong, I don't
see malice in the intent to develop
those games. It feels like where there
are harmful depictions of mental
health, its because they are playing
to a cliche. For example, Outlast is a
very scary game but its also set in an
asylum for no discernible reason.
Whereas, you know, there are other
games like the Town of Light for
example, that reviewed very well and
people really felt like their
depiction of the abandoned asylum in
Italy was very tastefully done. I
personally had issues with it, but
that's another part of the puzzle, is
that everyone is different and that
everyone is going to bring their own
stuff to the table. Where I felt like
it actually failed the protagonist by
revealing at one moment that the
aslyum, which is shown as this
horrible oppressive atmosphere,
they've actually got it right and
there is something wrong with her and
you can't trust her as a narrator. It
felt like it undid a lot of the games
message for me but thats something I
took from it and not necessarily
others, so its a difficult ground to
tread. And as I understand it,
development is not easy under any
circumstance so its a relief that
there arent people out there
deliberately trying to be like "We're
going to tackle mental health, in a
really awful way in this game."
CAITLIN
Yeah, I think mental health is you
can't get it right entirely when it
comes to producing a game. Whether
you're dealing with loss like in Roki,
whether you're dealing with depression
and suicide, everyones experience of
mental health is unique, its entirely
based on your life experiences, how
you react to it, your biological
makeup. It's - you can't get it
perfect but you can make a difference
and I think that's what a lot of game
develoeprs are going for now and its
making a difference, which is the main
thing.
ALEX
The interesting thing with Roki, I
don't think we ever really set out to
make a game about loss, we actually
started off with a fantastical
adventure and Scandinavian folklore,
and then you know when you look and
say - ok we want to make realistic
characters. They are quite stylised
and cartoony looking but the thing is,
if you want to make realistic
characters, everyone is dealing with
something. No-one is "normal",
everyone is working through something
and actualy in some ways if you're
going to make an interesting
character, they're always going to be
dealing with something, so what is
"that", is it an exterior threat or do
you look internally at what makes an
interesting character and start to
draw from some of your own
experiences. I think more of the
prominence of mental health issues in
games are people drawing from their
own experinces and wanting to make
interesting and believable characters,
comes from conflict and them having to
work through something, which is
exciting to see developers drawing on
their own experiences or their teams
experiences and creating characters
that are more nuanced and working
through things in their games.
CAITLIN
If anyone else has any other points,
feel free to go for it, if not, I'm
gonna segway. I wish I had an actual
segway, that'd make that funny. I'd
fall off though, its fine.
JOHNNY
They're not street legal in the UK!
CAITLIN
Oh yeah, they're not.
BECKY F
Wait what
MXIETY
Dissapointment.
JOHNNY
You can only use a segway on private
land in the UK.
BECKY F
Oh man. My commute has been ruined.
JOHNNY
Sorry, we derailed your segway. What
were you going to say?
BECKY F
Oh yeah!
General laughter from the group.
SUPPORT:
CAITLIN
We're gonna move into gaming as a
coping mechanism which is a big point
for me! I'm gonna show a little video
from one of SpecialEffect's folks,
Becky who is also as "Eye Gaze Girl".
BECKY F
She has severe quadriplegic cerebral
palsy, so she uses eye-gaze which is
an eye controlled system. So, Becky
(Eye Gaze Girl) was kind enough to
record this.
Video of Becky (Eye Gaze Girl) aka Eye Gaze Girl is playing:
BECKY (EYE GAZE GIRL)
Hi guys, this is Eye Gaze Girl, also
known as Becky. Video games are so
much fun and I like designing things
and exploring virtual worlds. I like
the challenge of some games, and
finding different ways to be creative.
When I play video games, I lose myself
in the game as it allows me to relax
and forget my troubles. In my everyday
life I am faced with many challenges
and struggles. This cans ometimes make
me feel upset and frustrated but over
the years and with the help of
SpecialEffect, I have had support to
find the right adaptive equipment and
what works well for me to enable me to
plah video games and that help has
been invaluable. There are lots of
things that I cant do myself but I can
play video games on my own which gives
me a good sense of independence and
achievement. I love playing video
games with my friends and it has given
me more in common with them and has
allowed me to be totally included in
the fun as an equal player. I think it
has changed the way that my friends
see me and it makes me feel less
disabled. Having access to video games
has changed my life and brought me
happiness when I've felt sad. To
others they are just video games but
they are so much more than that.
Goodbye.
Footage returns to the main panel screen with the 5
panelists.
BECKY F
So Becky spoke a few years ago at one
of our - we have a winter get together
at the SpecialEffect offices, and she
did a whole speech on how
SpecialEFfect have been helping her
and one of my favourite memories from
that is she was just describing the
games that she was playing. Like the
stuff she was doing in Minecraft, she
was building a theatre and putting on
a play with her friends - which is
that community and escapism element of
games. And these shared experiences
that I think everyone has with games
in some way or another. Like she was
saying how she loved playing the Sims
and she loved killing them off in
different ways! It was brilliant to
see this really sweet little girl
being like "Yes, I love to kill them
in different ways nyehehe!" and all
the adults in the room going
"Haha...." and then anyone whose ever
played the Sims before going... "I've
done that."
CAITLIN
Anyone who has played the Sims...
JOHNNY
You just sell the pool ladder!
MXIETY
What happens if I remove this door?
BECKY F
Take that ladder out the pool, there
you go! It's just that shared
inclusion and community.
CAITLIN
I think especially right now with
obviously the whole situation going on
in the world, the worldwide nature of
games has been a very big way to bring
people together. Like, obviously its
not the same as being able to sit down
and play in person but you still get
to talk to people, you get to meet new
people, like I've got a couple games
with brand new groups that I hadn't
met before lock down, that we now all
meet and play fairly regularly. Its a
good way to meet new people and just
be able to escape from the world for a
while.
ALEX
I think one of the things that some
games, even if they're not really
intended to, can be quite meditative
in the way its played. If its like a
simple thing, something that's very
absorbing, obviously everyone at the
moment is very worried about all
manner of things like - everything is
very concerning at the moment. So
having games as a way of unhooking
your brain or hooking your brain into
something else, and for a period of
time getting out of a cycle of
thinking about things is a really
powerful thing about games. One of the
games I really like to play to unwind
is Baba Is You. It's really like,
logic problem about how you pair
things together and you really have to
focus, there's no time pressure, the
music is kinda cool... In weird ways
some of the games that you dont expect
to be that relaxing, for example I'm a
big fan of the From Software games and
I find them quite relaxing to play in
a weird way. Even though they're quite
hardcore, there's something about them
being so absorbing and you have to be
there, and focus on it, you can't
really be thinking about anything
else. Then there's games that are just
chill like Animal Crossing.
BECKY F
I've been playing TownScaper recently.
Its just this little tool where you
build a town but the sound design,
there's something about it that just
mesmerises me, and I'm just like "Ooh,
plinky plonky, put down the town.
Lovely"
CAITLIN
Plinky Plonky?
BECKY F
Plinky plonky music!
CAITLIN
Thats how I program!
MXIETY
Tetris is another one that has been
proven to help. First of all it helps
prevent PTSD, the research if I'm not
mistaken, correct me if I am, the
research was that if you give somebody
Tetris to play after a traumatic event
they are less likely to lock in that
traumatic event and therefore less
likely to develop PTSD. And that was
really interesting, as in my
childhood, growing up with a rather
traumatic childhood, I played a lot of
Tetris! And looking back at it, I was
like "Oh my god, I didn't even know it
was a coping mechanism!" It was a way
for me to walk away and step away, and
then okay we're arguing here, ok I'm
going to walk away and just play
Tetris. Like I had this little,
literally a screen that had five
hundred games on it that were all
block and cube based and so I had
Tetris and to this day, when I get
stressed out or something, I sit down
and play Tetris. Although, Nintendo
has made it a little stressful with
Tetris 99, it's still awesome and I
still love it and I still find it very
soothing and removing from the current
environment, like Alex was saying. And
putting you in somewhere else.
JOHNNY
I think one of the remarkable things
about seeking out that experience, and
its something that video games are
very well positioned to deliver is
consistency. You know some people when
they're stressed they'll go for a walk
or they'll read a book or they'll cook
something or whatever it is. Obviously
variables can get in teh way, it might
be raining, they might be fatigued and
the walk just isn't rewarding or
whatever. Video games by their very
nature, every time you boot them up,
they're largely the same. You get the
same exprience from Tetris, be that
playing against 98 other people on the
Internet versus a 500 game screen. For
me, STardew Valley is a really good
game to you know, switch off and with
that I know like I'll wake up, here
are my animals, here are the tasks
that I have to do today, the music is
always a delight and its that
consistency but combined with that
sense of agency I think that really
makes it such a useful media to step
into. Although, I have to say, I
didn't know anything about the mental
health representation in Stardew
Valley because when I play it, I don't
talk to anyone.
MXIETY
That's a way to cope too right?
JOHNNY
Yeah! Exactly. My player is a hermit
basically, I go into town every few
weeks to buy seeds whereas there is
still one person that I have not met
and I'm on Year 3 or 4? Just cause I
like plugging away at my farm.
CAITLIN
There must be urban legends about the
farmer.
JOHNNY
Yes. The man with the mayonnaise
empire. I think they call me.
Laughter ensues.
MXIETY
Mayonnaise costs a lot of money! I get
it!
CAITLIN
I get it too, I just don't like
mayonnaise in real life so the idea of
running a mayonnaise empire is
horrifying.
JOHNNY
That's where the money is.
BECKY F
There's money in the mayonnaise stand.
CAITLIN
Stardew and Animal Crossing have been
a big one for kind of a sense of
accomplishment.
BECKY F
I was saying before we started
recording, that part of my job with
SpecialEffect is to go to the real
world events, which are obviously...
Hi EGX!
Waving at camera.
BECKY F (cont'd)
I was saying that I miss certain
things that I didn't think I'd miss,
like the train travel and the Tube and
the Underground and all that. I miss
that to an extent that I've started
building a SpecialEffect stand in
Animal Crossing and we do a
SpecialEffect stream every other
Friday and we've had guests come to
the SpecialEffect stand in Animal
Crossing. There's this really nice
kind of, familiarity and you can build
that nice space to enjoy for yourself
and yeah... It's been a weird time.
CAITLIN
That is an understatement.
Sounds of agreement.
ALEX
With Animal Crossing its almost like a
bonsai tree isn't it, you can get
things just how you want them, almost
like you're constructing this safe
space, somewhere you feel really
comfortable and have control over.
Yeah, I've played it, I've made a Twin
Peaks island, so I've made like the
lodge and then I had a diner and its
the kind of thing like "Oh I'll get
this" and you slowly build up this
thing and its a very rewarding thing
to keep on leveling up and leveling up
until you step back and go "my
kingdom".
BECKY F
My mayonnaise empire!
CAITLIN
That's the name of the panel now.
JOHNNY
Nooooo! My hidden shame!
CAITLIN
No, I've found... I had an experience
the other day, I had a really down
day. I managed to get up and do, I've
been doing Ring-Fit Adventure. I
managed to do my Ring-Fit for the day
and that was my only achievement for
that day, apart from getting out of
bed which always counts. But it's...
games do have that, like with Stardew,
you get to the next day and you've
sold your items and fed your animals
and you do feel like you've achieved
something. Its something that is
tangible, compared to the rest of the
world.
BECKY F
Grounding.
CAITLIN
Yeah, grounding, that is a word.
JOHNNY
I've started using Ring-Fit adventure
a lot recently, as like a lot of
people I've stopped leaving the house
very much because of COVID
restrictions, I've stopped exercising
at all and yeah, it's been really
nice, a really nice motivator, just to
go on it and be like "alright, well I
may not do as much as I did yesterday
or maybe I'll do a bit more, it
doesn't really matter as long as I
strap a joy-con to my leg and sort of
bounce around the living room for a
bit. I think that game is a really
good example of "gameifying" - as
annoying as that word is, things that
are good for you. Its a very, its all
positivity. It doesn't guilt trip you
at all as a game, it doesn't say "oh
you didnt do as well today as you have
before" or its been X number of days
since we last saw you, its all just
like "You're doing great! Keep going!
You need to stand up now but take your
time! Are you drinking enough water?"
Like, its a game that is just
delighted you've shown up. And I think
that is something that is really nice
for people to get as a targeted form
of feedback, especially if they may
not get that from other avenues in
life.
ALEX
The fact that it has the Yoga stuff in
it, the relaxation things in it, its
not just about bulking up or getting
stronger, its also about balance and
relaxation as well which feels very
well rounded. I really enjoy it, I was
really skeptical cause I thought it
might be quite gimmicky, so I think a
lot of people have maybe expected it
to be quite gimmicky, and then given
it a go and were like "wow this feels
like really well considered and really
fun to play and really inviting." I
find it really, quite a chilled place
to be.
MXIETY
Unlike, if everyone remembers the Wii
Fit Board which was a judgemental
bastard.
Laughter.
CAITLIN
Yes it was!
MXIETY
It had a lot to say about your weight,
about how long it's been, you know,
that was an attempt at creating a
fitness game that did motivate quite a
few people and got people into
exercising but like I feel that Ring-
Fit adventure does a way better, way
more inviting approach, to kind of
echo what you were saying. A way more
inviting job of doing the same thing.
CAITLIN
Its a bit like that person who walks
past you in a crowd that just gives
you a side-eye for no reason.
BECKY F
That's hopefully a good example of
Nintendo getting it, not quite right
the first time, and then listening to
community feedback and I think, just
going back to what we were saying
about how you can never really get it
100% right with mental health
representation in games, and that's
ok, as the experience is different for
every single person, any community
manager can tell you, you're never
going to please everybody. But there
are things that people can do as
writers, developers, game makers in
general to try and get it as right as
possible, and talking to charities
such as SafeInOurWorld can really help
with that so I encourage people tor
each out, speak to your community,
cause there will be community members
who go through different things and
just... talk to people and
SafeInOurWorld are a fantastic
resource for that.
MXIETY
Thank you for plugging the charity
that I should be plugging.
BECKY F
You're welcome! Cross charity plugging
there!
CAITLIN
Everyone plug each other, it makes
things easier.
ALEX
I think from an indie developer point
of view, as well, its really good to
get, if you are making a game that's
going to tackle some issues, whatever
they may be, its good to get extra
eyes on your game, especially if
you're a tiny team - like we do a lot
of user testing and focus testing
stuff, not just about if the puzzle is
too hard, its also about the themes
and the writing. I think if you are
quite close to something, its always
good to get an extra perspective and
different things will resonate with
different people, its always good to
see not just you as testing your
design but also the story and themes
and seeing how they land with people
and just like whether people, whether
there's anything they find problematic
about it, and sometimes it can be
quite subtle things but its always
good to do. Yeah, I think user testing
and getting other eyes on your game
cause you're quite close to it, is
just a really good thing to do - just
to get different people's perspectives
on things and see what things they
take from it.
MXIETY
I think that really nicely segways
into community!
CAITLIN
Yes!
BECKY F
It's as if we planned it!
CAITLIN
Planning here? In this house? At this
time of year? -
BECKY F
In this house we do not plan!
CAITLIN
I love how you go for "in this house
we do not plan" and I just immediately
went for-
JOHNNY
Steamed hams.
CAITLIN
Steamed hams.
JOHNNY
There it is.
CAITLIN
My age is showing. I went for the
meme.
COMMUNITY:
CAITLIN
Community is a very big thing and the
idea of one person speaking up
encouraging another, giving someone
else the courage to be able to speak
up is actually why I started my site
in the first place. It's very much
like games recently have been doing a
lot more where they are opening up
those conversations and those
opportunities for people to either
reach out for help or to find people
who-
CAITLIN (cont'd)
Mental health is a very isolating
thing. You feel like something is
wrong with you, you feel like you are
the only one in that situation, you
feel that people will not understand
and I think games are doing a very
good job recently of building those
communities where you realise, as much
as your experience is unique, you
aren't alone. (which is dramatic)
MXIETY
I don't think thats dramatic at all!
BECKY F
No that was great! I have a great
example of that from the SpecialEFfect
volunteer squad.
CAITLIN
Go for it!
BECKY F
We have a great number of members,
they're all absolutely amazing. Shout
out to the squad. I'm still calling it
a squad. I'm staying in 2016, thank
you very much. Two of my volunteers
both have BPD (Borderline Personality
Disorder) and one of them was talking
about it on social media and they had
followed each other and the other one
was just diagnosed and really
struggling with it. They ended up
chatting and connecting and making
good friends and just being there for
each other really. And its just this
wonderful example of how, if you're
comfortable talking about your mental
health struggles or just talking to
people generally. And again, this word
is a bit like gameification, in that
its been going around all over the
place but just normalising the idea of
talking about mental health as
something that everyone goes through
in one way or another. And that's,
I've seen first hand how much that can
help people and its been a really
lovely thing to watch.
CAITLIN
Normalising is spot on, the word, of
kind of, because it is completely
normal! Statistically, I think it's
one in four people now will suffer
from a mental health condition in
their lifetime. And it's normal, its
not, its not something that needs to
be completely fixed or removed, like
for me, I've very much accepted that
as much as my conditions affect me, it
is also a part of me and it does
impact the decisions that I've made.
Like I wouldn't be sat here doing this
if it wasn't for what I've been
through and obviously there are some
bits I wish I could've skipped or hit
"no thank you" on, but these
experiences make you the people that
you are and I think its... games
allowing people to realise that and to
go "No, you aren't alone, look
around." And its more of a - cause
obviously if someone tells you that
you aren't alone, it's a bit like when
someone tells you to calm down when
you're having an anxiety attack.
Really. I never thought of that. Thank
you.
MXIETY
Very helpful.
CAITLIN
So helpful
BECKY F
Have you tried not being depressed?
General groaning from the panel.
BECKY F (cont'd)
Oh thanks Barbara!
MXIETY
Nobody with depression has ever tried
not being depressed. Or smiling, or
just laughing or my favourite, just
enjoying a sunset. You know, stuff
like that, or doing yoga. The list is
endless, you can tell, I can go on.
But in terms of community, my
community was literally built around
talking about mental health in a open
way and that has been the biggest
honour from starting a community, I
remember my first stream. Sitting very
nervous, swallowing hard and being
like "Okay... So I have depression and
uhhh yeah." To a place where its
bigger than any one person in our
community, where its an idea, a
concept, we've created this idea of Be
The Light, which is you know, if you
feel like the world is dark and people
are crap and nobody will be kind to
you, try to go out there and initiate
that kindness and love and whatever
else you're looking for yourself, give
that to somebody else and maybe you'll
get it back. Mental health is, like
you said, just health but your mental
health. There's physicQal health and
then there's mental health and just
because you don't suffer from a
diagnosable condition in your life,
doesn't mean you'll never feel down
and like you're worthless or useless
or your efforts were for nothing or
any of those things that people will
depression can get to extremes. Just
recognising that it is - like if I
have to listen to - poor Barbara we've
been picking on her - but if I have to
listen to Barbara tell me about her
husbands back condition and you know,
he's getting surgery and I sit in my -
when I used to be in an office, I used
to listen and give empathy, I feel
like I should be able to also tell
back to Barbara you know, I really
felt depressed and I had a hard time
yesterday and I couldn't get out of
bed so that's why I wasn't at work and
not be judged for it. If we can
create, the more media in general that
we can create that makes that normal,
the more normal it is for people
coming up in the world and that's it -
that's the goal of SafeInOurWorld,
that's the goal of really just being
human and just accepting what the
human condition is, with all of its
negatives and positives.
COOOOOOOOOOOOOOP##ILLLLLAITLIN
Damn.;;OO
ALL
ThatY;O was awesome, really well said,
wow.
JOHNNY
I think really, the only thing I have
to follow that, like you know I've
tried to do community facing stuff
with mental health as part of my work
but I have a group of friends that I
play Sea of Thieves with a lot and
before you go out sailing in Sea of
Thieves, its a really good idea to
stock up on cannon balls and fruit and
planks of wood and just general
supplies. I don't really know when it
started but that time has sort of just
become the bit where we check in on
one another. Because no-one is doing
anything particularly complicated but
it takes up about ten to fifteen
minutes and its always at the start of
an evening, so it'd be like "Hey, hows
it going" but more often than not its
got to the point where its like "Hows
it going" and you be like "Rubbish
here's why" and bang we're straight
into mental health discussion which is
nice cause it carries on for as long
as we need it to, then we go "right
shall we go to see" like "yeyeyeye",
and immediately just go into dumb
pirate fun. And- I don't know but
there's just something about Sea of
Thieves and the small community of
friends that I'm a part of, as we
play regularly, they just sort of
clicked and it meant that we've sort
of accidentally built up a sort of
boozey support group for one another.
Which is pleasant.
CAITLIN
No I mean, like the people that know
me more personally will know that I've
been a big part of certain communities
for a good few years now, through some
of the more formative experiences of
my life. A lot of these people that I
play games and things with now, we
have an unspoken system where it's -
you do understand when someone is
having an off day or when someone
needs to step away because their
anxiety is peaking or something.
Having the games around that gives
something that - I mean for me, one of
my main issues with anxiety is that
when you're about to have an anxiety
attack, part of that anxiety comes
from then being the center of
attention during that moment. It's
like "NO THANK YOU", and having
something central to focus on like a
game and stepping away from the mic
for a while, has allowed a lot of
people to be more vocal.
BECKY F
I mean, hopefully, in the future when
things are "back to normal", although
I'm loathe to use that term, that will
make having that conversation and
saying "Look, I'm not okay in this
situation or I'm feeling really
overwhelmed and need to go be quiet
for a bit.", that'll normalise being
able to say that and make it a more
accepted thing that people just do.
Its just so important to be able to
just remove yourself from the
situation occasionally, so hopefully
that is a bit more normalised in the
future.
CAITLIN
I've found that events have a lot more
safe spaces and quiet zones nowadays,
which is very much appreciated. Like
they have quiet zone tents and stuff,
I know CheckPoint had one at EGX in
October - I don't know, time is a
madness.
JOHNNY
There's also the AFK rooms at PAX,
which are delightful. I went to one
when I was really anxious before a
panel I had to run, as I was
interviewing Mike Pondsmith so it was
proper bucket list stuff for me. So I
went and sat there in this nice little
atrium, at one point somebody came
over and whispered to me to ask if I
wanted some water and apart from that
it was just this little oasis of calm.
You know, occasionally you do
accidentally make eye contact with
someone and you both give each other a
little smile. I was able to step out
straight back into an Arcade Zone that
had loads of laser sound effects going
off at ear splitting volumes. And it
was such a brilliant lifeline. Its
nice that those spaces are becoming
more common but I wish they would
become a bit more prevalent.
CAITLIN
I think these big events where we can
all come together about something we
really enjoy, like video games - I
think once we have a community
understanding that "these are needed"
rather than a fun little extra.
ALEX
I think also the presence of those
sort of zones at the events is really
good to highlight to people as an
option there. People might not even
have considered "why do I feel a
certain way several hours into this
day. There's this thing on the map,
what is it?", they may not even
identify that have a need within
themselves. We were pretty fortunate
that the CheckPoint one was very close
to where we were demoing Roki so it
was really nice to basically be able
to step out, sit on a beanbag and just
have some time. Yeah I think it's,
there's a need there and the fact that
the people who are aware of it can go
and utilise it and its really good for
raising the visibility of people who
don't quite know if they need it, if
that makes sense.
CONCLUSION:
CAITLIN
Yeah. And on that note, I think we
will round things up cause we may chat
all day otherwise. And we all have
other things to do! I want to say a
big thank you to the four of you for
joining me for this, it means a great
deal to me and I hope it will mean a
great deal to anyone watching this.
JOHNNY
And thanks to you for running such a
nice, well-rounded panel. It's been
really nice to come on here and have a
chat.
BECKY F
Yeah absolutely.
MXIETY
Yes thank you!
CAITLIN
I hope everyone else enjoys the rest
of EGX Digital, be sure to check out
everyone's links. Be sure to check out
SpecialEffect, SafeInOurWorld, Roki
and Dicebreaker! [Awkward pause] And
me as well! I forgot myself!
JOHNNY
Yeah absolutely!
BECKY F
Do go to MindGames, it's a fantastic
resource, honestly.
CAITLIN
And I hope everyone has a lovely day!
Be sure to take time for yourself if
you need it.
END.
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